podcast ·Jun 28, 2025

Unscripted SEO Interview: "Why 90% of Businesses Can't Convert Leads (And How to Fix It)"

by Drewbie Wilson

Introduction: From T-Shirts to SEO

Jeremy Rivera: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera, with the Unscripted SEO podcast by Save Fry Oil. I'm here with Drewbie Wilson, who I'm actually really excited to talk to. He's got a really interesting take and it's close to my heart because it has to do with t-shirts.

And if you've known me for a long time, I got my start in SEO thanks to John Henshaw and Raven Tools. And he gave me a t-shirt that had this awesome — I'm surprised I'm not wearing it, I still have it — had just said Raven on it.

I didn't even know what SEO really was. I was working at a call center. And I get this awesome t-shirt and it leads me down this rabbit hole where now I'm doing podcasts talking to SEOers of all types and sizes, experiences. It's 17, 18 years in the SEO industry.

So, Drewbie, give yourself an introduction. Tell people what you're all about.

Meet Drewbie Wilson: From Streets to Sales

Drewbie Wilson: Thank you so much for having me Jeremy. First and foremost, name is Drew B. Wilson. I am a self-proclaimed meme lord so much so that I tattooed it across my knuckles, kind of like an idiot, but I am for all intents and purposes, I am in the sales and marketing space.

I grew up in the streets selling anything and everything I could get my hands on. As I got older, I met a beautiful young lady. She eventually became my wife. We had a son and I realized, "Hey, the fast money don't last. So I should probably get into some more legitimate sales."

I have sold in insurance, tobacco and cigars, furniture, retail, all sorts of different things, marketing. So I have sold pretty much anything and everything that you can think of and or worked with someone who has sold that sort of product and service.

And the biggest thing that I've learned is really just leaning in on a service-based sales mentality because I love to help people. And I know when you help enough people get what they want, eventually you end up getting what you want. I think that's a Zig Ziglar quote. I might have butchered it a little bit.

🎯 Best Quotes from the Interview

On Lead Follow-Up Reality

"90 some percent of business owners can't give you a distinct answer" when asked what happens when a lead comes in.

"80% of people buy from the first person they talk to just simply because they have a need and they're trying to buy."

"Most sales guys, they quit after two to three calls. They're like, 'oh, this is a shit lead.'"

On Sales vs. Marketing Alignment

"No one is going to be as passionate about the messaging and the conversation as you are because you have 15 years of experience."

"If you're promising something on the front end that has absolutely nothing to do with what the actual conversation or service looks like, you're setting yourself up for disaster."

"People don't want to be sold something. They want to make a decision to buy."

On Content Strategy

"Everybody in SEO just wants to publish an ultimate guide and that's all you gotta do. It's all just one thing. But that's not how our brains work."

"Did you talk to anybody? Did you talk to anybody?"

"People want short quick easy to understand instructions."

On Problem Awareness

"If you're not problem aware you don't know what you don't know until you know and then you have to make a decision."

"No one wants to be told they're an idiot. They want to feel like 'shoot. This is something I should actually be thinking about here.'"

On Time Management

"Time, energy, and effort are the only resources we cannot get back."

"99% of people can have all of the tools, all of the resources, every recipe, every ingredient, and they're still not gonna do the thing that they need to do with them."

On Trust and Expertise

"Certifications and titles and degrees and all of that means so much less now. People just want to know are you a true expert in the subject matter?"

💡 Key Takeaways

Lead follow-up is broken everywhere. Only 1% of businesses call leads back the same day, and only 10% ever call back at all - yet business owners constantly complain about needing more leads.
Sales and marketing must work together. Before taking on any marketing client, ask exactly what happens when a lead comes in and demand a detailed 30-day follow-up process.
The modern attention economy requires 500+ touchpoints. What used to take 8-12 interactions now requires hundreds due to constant advertising bombardment and consumer defensiveness.
Interview your experts, don't just do keyword research. One hour recording the business owner beats 10 hours of SEO tool research for creating authentic, resonating content.
Use "microwave directions" for content. Break everything into simple, obvious steps because people skip basics and need clear, sequential instructions to get predictable results.
Create curiosity gaps with dark humor. For "unsexy" industries, use memes and problem awareness to make people realize what they don't know without making them feel stupid.
Time management trumps all tactics. Most marketers waste hours on keyword research instead of having conversations - know what your time is worth and measure ROI on every activity.
Trust comes from conversation quality, not credentials. Modern consumers care more about authentic expertise demonstrated through helpful content than certificates or degrees.
Reddit and social platforms require native participation. You can't kick in the door with sales pitches - figure out how your audience naturally discusses problems and join those conversations authentically.

But that's my game and I own a company named Call the Damn Leads because when I owned my own marketing company I was really great at getting people leads. But they weren't so great at picking up the phone and calling them.

And so I would over and over be having this conversation of "hey, just call the damn leads. Just call the damn leads" and I remember telling some friends of mine, "man I'm just gonna put that on a t-shirt someday and sell it to every marketer on the planet because we all have the same conversation with our prospects and our clients."

And here we are about four to five years after that conversation. Call the Damn Leads is a full-blown e-commerce business. We have hats, keychains, wristbands, t-shirts, and we also do a bit of sales coaching and mentorship on the side of that as well.

The Lead Follow-Up Problem

Jeremy Rivera: I have said, "call the damn leads," after working with an asphalt guy and I knew that I generated X number of leads off of the site. I'm like, "what came out of it? Nothing. Did you follow up on that lead?" There was even a revenue share partnership. So I'm like, I got a little meat on this. And I referred him to another friend of mine like "hey did you get a quote back from Jack? Nothing." Like you're making me look bad. Can you call the damn leads? I don't understand.

I think I saw there was a use case study somebody in the service SEO space did four or five years ago where they took a hundred sites and submitted the contact form on the site. And it was something like only 1% got a callback that day and only 10% got any callback at all.

So it is absolutely ridiculous the amount of money that small businesses, particularly service businesses, I'm going to hit out where it hurts because small business owners seem to be the absolute worst, the most hungry for leads when you talk to them about marketing. They're, "absolutely. I need leads all day. Your SEO program needs to show ROI and needs to turn over." But you actually look at the stats of how long did it take to get back? How many emails did you send back? What was your process? It's a disaster.

A Real-World Example: The Condo Lead Disaster

Drewbie Wilson: I had — it's funny because I had one client in particular. So when I came from the insurance world, I was making I don't know three, four grand a month after commissions, which to me at the time as a young man was like fantastic. Because I grew up in the era of, "Hey, if you barely graduated and you don't have a whole lot going for yourself, you're going to make $10 an hour doing grunt labor." So like, you know, that's what 1500, 1600 a month maximum. And then they take taxes. So it's not a lot of money. So to be making four or five grand in a month selling insurance at the time was fantastic.

I realized I wanted to make 6 figures. As a sales guy, that's always that first number. How do I make 6 figures? I went to my boss and I said, "what do I have to do to make more money? I'm always winning these awards. We're the number one agency in the area. What am I missing?"

"You just need to be patient. Someday, 10 years from now, 15 years from now, it'll be your name on the door. You'll be doing well."

All I could think was, I don't want to wait that long. I went online. I started learning marketing.

[Client story continues...] I'm generating leads through the specific form for this condo. And he calls me like two weeks into the month and he's going, "Hey man, this isn't working. I'm going to need a refund." And I was like, "well, Hey man, I'm looking at the stats and I can see we've got, you know, I think at the time was like 60, 70 leads, whatever it was." And he's like, "yeah, these leads are shit." And I was like, "well, that's strange. Did you call them, text them, email them? Like, what was the process?"

"I called most of them. They didn't answer."

And I was like, "well, let me look into this a little bit."

So I go into the lead form and I'm looking at all the leads. I just picked up my phone and started calling.

I probably called a dozen people in our area — concerns, I kinda know what I'm looking at. Like you said, I probably called a dozen people in our area. Not one of them answered the phone, and I think only one of them ever even called back, like a week after we had already sold the house. And I was like, "what are you guys doing?"

Marketing vs Sales Responsibility

Jeremy Rivera: I'm curious from now that you're in that hybrid position, not just in sales, but in that marketing side too, there is a bit of responsibility on the marketing side of developing the right type of lead or being more effective at reaching the particular audience that's actually going to be ready to make a purchase.

So I see a bifurcation of that responsibility. Yes, I would love to encourage — I think having that conversation as an SEO, having the forethought or the thought process to connect yourself more broadly into the organization to understand like:

"Hey, I'm not going to just focus on does this page rank? I'm not going to focus on how many people came to this page. I'm not even going to focus on how many people filled out the form. I'm going to focus in on at the end of the day is the service associated with this page with this site actually growing or declining"

And that connects through the CRM, that connects in the follow through, that connects and understanding — is there, can I help set up a drip campaign, can I help set up a remarketing campaign that's associated with it or check in with the marketing teams that they have that have that claim that they've set that up? Is there a misconfiguration in the pixel? Is there, does it just go to a black hole or is there only one receptionist who's there from like nine to 12, then she's got a two hour lunch break and then she's back from one to three and she might give a call back?

Is it one guy who's on the site who's leading the asphalt contracting himself, is the only person, he doesn't allow anybody else to make the quotes. He's got the secret formula in his head how much it costs in his business and he's been doing it since forever and he won't give it up — like what is that conversion process actually look like.

The Importance of Message-Market Fit

Drewbie Wilson: That's so important and coming from the insurance world, I remember we would pay $25 to $50 a lead and we'd call them and they'd be like, "well, I filled out a form for a gift card or whatever." And it was like, "so you're not actually interested in insurance?" "No, I just want the gift card." And it's like, okay.

And as I started leaning in on the marketing side, because I know that message that someone sees first, right? That first interaction, that first impression that they have of you. That's not just important in the real world, that's also important in your marketing plan.

Because if you're promising something on the front end that has absolutely nothing to do with what the actual conversation or service looks like, you're setting yourself up for disaster. And so I believe sales and marketing, they have to work in cohesion.

These days I've had to learn this lesson the hard way, but before I would even take on a marketing client I'm gonna ask them like exactly what you said. "What's gonna — if I bring you a lead today? What's gonna happen with it?" and 90 some percent of business owners can't give you a distinct answer.

The 30-Day Lead Nurture System

And to me I lean in on "well, okay cool. If a lead comes in today that first 30 days is like a priority. So what's that gonna look like?"

"Well, we're gonna call them day one. They don't answer we're gonna text. We're going to call them day two. If they don't answer, we're going to send them an email. We're going to call them day three, four, five, day eight, day 10, 15, 21, 28, 31."

There's all these touch points that are really, really important there because if someone did submit their lead information online on a form, a lot of times that lead's being sold to multiple people at a time. So yeah, it's understandable that if you're not the first to talk to them, you have a much lower percentage chance of actually converting the deal.

I forget what the stat is but it's like 80% of people buy from the first person they talk to just simply because they have a need and they're trying to buy but after that if someone's like overwhelmed because they're getting bombarded from all these things, then you kind of have to work that slow game and follow up on days eight and 10 and 15 because most sales guys, they quit after two to three calls. They're like, "oh, this is a shit lead. I'm not gonna, you know, like obviously they don't want what I'm selling."

But the truth is people are people and you, the listener have a life and you have things going on in your life. And you probably have at some point submitted your information for a thing that you were interested in. And then immediately got distracted by some other thing going on around you, right? Your kid fell off the chair or whatever happens in life — like this is all real. So that nurturing process...

The Challenge of Modern Attention

I have some extreme ADD and I don't know. Have you ever seen the stat that it used to be 8 to 12 touch points on average to go from absolute cold audience to someone who's really interested in working with you? That was a stat I saw a lot a few years ago. It has gone up to like 500 touch points because we're constantly being advertised to.

We immediately log in. We look at social media, every other post is an ad. I don't want to say a wall, but that's the best way to analogize it is like they have this wall against sales. So they're immediately on the defensive. They immediately kind of put their guard up because they don't want to be sold something. They want to make a decision to buy.

And so it's so important that as you're creating your system process routine, whatever you want to call it, that you're leaning in on service and nurturing, not just trying to get the deal closed.

Because I mean, honestly, bro, we can go to YouTube and learn how to create SEO and we can go to YouTube and learn how to do sales and we can go on YouTube and learn all of this stuff. Does it mean that we were going to get the right information? No, not necessarily, but we all are very much in a DIY like, "I can figure this out. I can pull up a thing."

I got instant access to information. At the end of the day though, 99% of people can have all of the tools, all of the resources, every recipe, every ingredient, and they're still not gonna do the thing that they need to do with them.

Reddit Marketing: The Toilet Partition Case Study

Jeremy Rivera: That's true, and it kind of reminds me of Reddit. If you go on Reddit and you're trying to make the hard sale, 99 out of 100 subreddits will get you slapped down with 100 downvotes and some serious meme psychic damage.

Drewbie Wilson: They will hurt your feelings for sure.

Jeremy Rivera: They will hurt your feelings. But I work with my friend Michael McDougald's Right Thing Agency and we had to figure out how to talk about toilet partitions on Reddit in a way that wouldn't get us flagged and spam to oblivion.

So we spent like a week coming up with it and like, "why are there such wide gaps?" I'm like, "why are there such wide gaps?" And I'm like, "it's poorly installed. It has low quality." That's like, if you do it right, and you plan it out, there shouldn't be these huge peaking gaps.

So we did this whole Reddit campaign and three different styles of posts complaining about the massive gaps. And then he could show up and explain, "well, that's because it's poorly installed. You need quality toilet partitions that aren't, the measurements are totally wrong and put together by an idiot."

So you have to come at it, the marketing problem of participation. Figure out where your people are and how they're having a conversation there. That way you're not kicking in the door and like shoving a toilet partition in their face.

The Power of Memes and Problem Awareness

Drewbie Wilson: Well, it's funny you had mentioned toilet partitions just as a random like side. A friend of mine's wife posted one the other day where it was a reel and you know, someone was walking by a room. They're like, "why is it in America that every toilet in a public restroom is like this? Them gaps be gapping." And it was a lady like covering her private parts, like looking out all terrified because there's a huge gap in the partition. Right.

And so that awareness, it's so fun. And that's why I love memes, because you can say so much with a meme or with a reel or something funny like that that gets people thinking right as you said problem awareness.

How do they become aware of the specific problem that they're facing and then once they become aware? What steps do you want them to take next?

Because not everybody needs to worry about the toilet partitions, but if you have something that gets enough attention from the public and it falls into your feed because now everybody is laughing at it and all of a sudden you are a small business owner or you own a series of buildings like you're gonna see that and go "wait a second are the partitions in my toilets like too wide like I guess I never would have thought about that" because if you're not problem aware you don't know what you don't know until you know and then you have to make a decision.

Marketing the "Unsexy" Industries

Jeremy Rivera: That makes sense. So when you're doing creative work trying to connect sales and marketing for different niches. I've found that there's a bigger challenge with like the sexy stuff of like, yeah, like you got a luxury resort, like you can come up with that easy.

What's the thought process of connecting that sales and marketing gap with something that's not as sexy? Like you're working for an internet provider or helping promote a CPR class.

Drewbie Wilson: I think you just have to lean in on the dark humor. And I know that's not everybody's vibe, but honestly, like CPR class, for example, right? It's like, you can go in the, "hey, what happens if your kid starts drowning? Well, you want to protect them, right? Okay, like there's a scariness to that." And also it's a skillset that you can learn.

So how do you make someone aware of the fact that they genuinely don't know how to save someone's life in an emergency?

Well, if something's scary, you poke fun at it. That's like what we do as humans naturally is like, I don't know. This is kind of scary.

Jeremy Rivera: Whack him with a pool noodle. He's not breathing. Everybody's like, what? Get the pool noodle. Don't know what to do with the pool? Can't see that.

Drewbie Wilson: Exactly. And I think that's the thing. Listen, most people don't know what to do if someone starts drowning. They don't know what to do if their kid starts choking. And so that's why, like to me, it reminds me of those old WikiHow memes or the old WikiHow photos remember it would be like some lady just smacking the crap out of a kid and you'd be like "what is going on here?"

But it's like "well I'm making you problem aware that that's not how you actually" — yes you have to hit them on the back but you're not cracking them as hard as you possibly can or you know you're not just gonna toss the baby out because they're choking — like that's not how that works.

So I think creating a very clear disconnect of like "hey, here's what you're obviously not supposed to do in this situation" — that creates that awareness for someone in a way that's not like "hey you're an idiot because you don't know how to save your kids" — like no one wants to be told they're an idiot.

They want to feel like "shoot. This is something I should actually be thinking about here. What do I do next now?" like you want to just spark that reminder to them internally that there's something they don't know — a curiosity gap if you will — and that's what gets people to start actually doing more research on that specific product or service because now all of a sudden they're curious. And the curious mind loves to learn.

That's like the open loop process. One of my courses is called Closing the Loop because a lot of people don't know how to close that curiosity gap. They can get attention, but they don't know how to reel it back in and be like, "okay, now that I have your attention, here's where we need to take the next steps on this process."

Beyond the Ultimate Guide: Content Strategy Reality

Jeremy Rivera: I think it's about that process too about thinking through in the content like, yeah, you can reach out and get as much attention. And even if you get them back to your site, not every article is going to prompt them at that point to do the thing. You need to push them a little bit further and recognize that you can't put out a 10,000 word essay for everything. And that's just what you do. You know, like you can't have the 10,000 word ultimate guide.

Everybody in SEO just wants to publish an ultimate guide and that's all you gotta do. It's all just one thing. But that's not how our brains work. That's not how we learn. You need to have links within your content to push them to the next step in the stage in the process, step in the funnel. Add the call to action.

I don't know how many blog posts I've read that it was just text. And there was no link. I'm like, "okay, well you just, thanks for the information, I guess I'll see ya. I got what I wanted, I'm out."

Microwave Directions: The Art of Simplicity

Drewbie Wilson: I really like to lean on what I call "microwave directions." It's an oversimplification, here's the deal. Humans are at a point where convenience is everything. And all of us have at some point or another made a microwave meal. And what does that look like?

Well, we flip it over and we look at the instructions. And usually the first instruction is "take the thing out of the box," which sounds ridiculous, but if you didn't tell them, "hey, you got to take the meal out of the box and poke some holes in the plastic," they would skip that part and then they would burn their damn house down.

Like, "okay, what is step one? Take it out of the box, poke holes in it, microwave for two minutes, pull it out of the microwave, wait one minute so that you don't burn yourself," which again, sounds like a ridiculous thing to do because who just picks up steaming hot food and puts it in their mouth? Very few people who have any sense of sort of common sense. And yet they still have to explain this in microwave directions.

And so for me, when I think about it that way is like "hey we've all burnt a microwave meal we've all looked in the microwave and been like what the heck happened here and then we're asking ourselves like wait did I follow the directions or like was this just a shitty meal like what happened" but if you can follow those microwave directions 95 percent of the time let's just say you end up with a result that's predictable.

And that's where I think so many people mess up that process is they're skipping over parts one and two and going right to the, "all right, well, let's just build a blog post and put a whole bunch of SEO keywords in there. And then that's going to drive a ton of traffic."

But the point is, "Hey, did you actually do the research? Are you 100% sure this is what the person is actually searching for so that when they land on your page, there's an intent based" — not like a curiosity gap of like, "okay, I want to learn how to do CPR. Awesome."

Take them into the here's your guide on CPR:

Step one. Are they actually in danger?
Step two. Are you qualified to help them? If no call an ambulance
Step three Open up the airway
Step four compress the chest

Like right — I'm not a CPR expert but like if I'm just bulleting this out people want short quick easy to understand instructions. And then you can go into the more in-depth side of like "okay cool and here's why this is important and here's what you're gonna do and here's how it's going to play out and what's gonna happen if you do this the wrong way? Someone could die, right" — like that's pretty clear but "here's what could happen if you do it the right way by following the directions you could save someone's life" and that's that to me is where the step-by-step process gets skipped over because a lot of people just be like "okay we're gonna just open their mouth to do this" — like okay but is that the actual situation that's going on or you just making an uneducated guess at that point?

Trust in the Digital Age

Jeremy Rivera: A lot of uneducated guesses come from untrustworthy sources putting out information out there. And there's so many different voices, so many different sources. There's kind of a class of queries or searches that are like "your money or your life" is how Google qualifies it.

It's not learning who was the fifth Megazord in the 13th season of Power Rangers or how many Land Before Time movies did they actually make? Was it you know 20 or 35? You know there are actual searches that are more — you know they impact either your life quality or your money quality.

So if you're you know doing something serious like you're doing recovery for addicts, what are the things that resonate in digital marketing that are hallmarks of trust or trustworthiness that aren't just putting up a badge that says that I'm a certificate, that I was a 2005 certified something.

What is the whole shebang? What is that trust creation process look like in today's digital age?

Quality Over Credentials

Drewbie Wilson: I think, and this is where I'm really... I love watching the way Google is shifting the way that you search. Like when you search now, it's not just giving you like the top three ranked pages, like they're in there, but usually they're under an AI summary where they've gone in and they've basically looked over those top ranking pages and they pulled a conglomerate of details to be like, "okay, based on our search, here's like the most important stuff you need to know." And then it will start leaning into, "Hey, here's the link to this page. Here's a link to this page."

So to me, I think the certificates matter less than the quality of the conversation that's going on on your marketing. You have to be very clear and distinct about:

Who do we help
Why do we help them
What are they actually gonna learn here
What's gonna happen if they actually implement the thing that they're learning

Because a lot of people, again, they want fast, they want convenient. They don't wanna have to read through 10,000 words just to get to the end to say, "hey, if you wanna sell more stuff, pick up the phone and call the damn leads." Like that should be obvious.

But again, there's so many people out there in the world that have put out this misinformation of like, "well you can do this and do this and do this and do this." And like, yes, maybe those will work to a degree. But at the end of the day, someone needs to pick up the phone and have a conversation with this person. And if they're not having the conversation via phone, are they texting them? Are they emailing them? Like what is that process for acquisition?

And honestly, bro, certifications and titles and degrees and all of that means so much less now. People just want to know are you a true expert in the subject matter?

Because there's a lot of people that you know trusted the degrees from the doctors and trusted the you know, the certificates from X Y and Z who ended up realizing that they learned more about it by actually going and doing their own research than the doctor was ever privy to right — like cancer people are one of those guys like...

You can go down a whole rabbit hole there, but the fact is there are doctors that will stick to a specific box of how they treat and how they handle things. Whereas you can go on and learn like, "maybe if you changed your diet or maybe if you started using this supplement" or again, there's a number of different paths you can go down, but every human is different. We all react to certain things in different ways.

And so it's not just about, "Hey, I am, you know, you should trust me because I have this doctorate when I barely showed up, half-assed my way through college and I graduated with a D minus but that doesn't matter that I don't actually know the information I've got my certificate so you should trust me."

The Expert Interview Strategy

Jeremy Rivera: And I think there's also probably, you know, like, maybe the guy is a wunderkind when he's in the room with you, but the marketing — like he's his marketing is put up by his secretary who doesn't actually know anything about anything, you know, like "oh Janet go put up a website, you know, go get us a website on the GeoCities" — I saw that a few years ago. Great at heart surgery but terrible at marketing.

But I think there's that maybe that connection of if you do have somebody who's truly experienced then why aren't you interviewing them for content on your site?

You know, I've had so many marketing conversations with the marketing manager, but the person actually executing on the thing, they're not in that conversation. It’s like trying to help a car dealership gain the visibility it needs And I'm trying to get information about, "well, what's the next step? Like how do these, how does this upgraded Ai car system really make a difference, this care feature that you want to push?" Like, "oh, well, you know, you can do your keyword research and see, you know, what are the different ways that people describe?"

No, like, I mean, is it because it sounds like a beautiful symphonic of rain and you'd envision yourself in Georgia — like that's what the owner might say if you talk to him for five minutes — like just sit down and actually record a conversation with the expert and turn that into the marketing because that's going to resonate so much more than your you know four hours of keyword research.

Not to bash on myself or bash on other SEO professionals but we have developed this mantra of like "hey I do SEO. So I use SEMrush and Ahrefs." I'm like, did you talk to anybody? Did you talk to anybody?

The Marketing Company Problem

Drewbie Wilson: Well, and God love all the marketers that are out there. This day and age has made becoming a marketing professional, and I'm using air quotes for those of you who are listening but aren't actually watching us.

The fact is, this is a conversation I have with a lot of business owners that I consult. They're like, "well, I'm gonna go hire a marketing company." And I'm like, "what does that marketing company know about your business that you know they don't know?"

No one is going to be as passionate about the messaging and the conversation as you are because you have 15 years of experience. You've talked to thousands of people and had to have that real heart to heart. The marketing company doesn't have that. They might be super niche down and maybe to a degree they kind of understand it through experience and working with other companies like yours, but like, as you said, man, a lot of marketers, quote, are just going online and they're being like, "all right, well, I can just go and use this search tool to pull up all the queries that people ask questions about. And then I can just keyword stuff a bunch of blog posts and I'm gonna drive traffic and make this guy rich."

But at the end of the day, is it the right message in front of the right person at the right time? And a lot of times it's not.

Top Action Item: Time Management

Jeremy Rivera: Rounding out the end of the interview, I like to ask for your top action item. Somebody listens to this and they go to X. They listen to this and they go to Y. What's your top most actionable thing that you drop?

Drewbie Wilson: This is very counterintuitive to like all of the marketing conversation, but the number one thing I think people aren't doing well is managing their time. They don't know what their time is worth. They don't know where they're spending it. They don't know why they're spending it on that. And they're not actually sure of what the ROI of that investment is.

Time, energy, and effort are the only resources we cannot get back. So if you're wasting them on things like 10 hours of keyword research instead of actually having a one hour conversation with the business owner and recording it and then going and using the AI tools to transcribe it and give you the key things that you need to know from that conversation, you're wasting a lot of time.

And you can't win it, you can't buy it from the store, you can't get it in a poker tournament, you don't get a box full of it Christmas morning. So I would say the number one thing anyone in any business, especially marketing can do, is:

Where are you spending your time?
What is your time actually worth?

Are you getting a return on that investment for the time you're spending?

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